Post by Ben on Apr 2, 2006 3:06:17 GMT -5
Reserving a thread for religious topics and discussion.
The compartmentalization of this topic is aimed at bypassing prejudices. Prejudices eliminate fair assesment of any topic. Please know that most forms of aggression (direct or indirect) are symptoms of ignorance.
Pharoah (pharonic) model vs. Prophetic model
6000 verses in Qu'ran - 500 of which deal with legislative subjects - controversy circulates around most of these legislative topics which as we have mentioned before in the past is largely due to the gross mis-interpretations of translations and translations themselves.
This subject is one of the non-legislative topics contained in Qu'ran. Notes were taken from Hamza Yusef's "Vision of Islam" class. The 5500 non-legislative verses in Qu'ran largely deal with history, stories of those who came before the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), reflections, and the Pharonic vs. Prophetic model.
The story of Moses and Pharoah is mentioned in Qu'ran more than any other. This is an important sign in and of itself. It is a message and discourse on the very nature of society and the pattern it normally rises and falls into.
Pharonic model:
The symbol for the Pharoah is the pyramid. The pyramid leads to an apex and is supported by a wide and large foundation. The apex symbolizes high society or a ruling class and the foundation symbolizes lower class structures. Everything points to and supports this ruling class.
Ruling class - (Pharon) political, controlling, traps all below in delusional followings, seeks to have classes lower than ruling to "worship" the leading class
Economic - (Haman) Deals with all issues regarding economics
Military - Empowers the above two structures to do as they want
"Magicians" - (well known in the story of Pharoh but can be paralleled into modern organizations) pulls veils over the masses, makes falsehood look true (media devices), seeks to keep the masses in a state of awe, "bewitches" people
all of the above mentioned in the Qu'ran
Pharohic personality traits - sensitive, sends out spies, uses a spy network, wants to monitor everything that is happening in society. Fearfull, fears the prophetic element in society because the prophetic element exposes the lie i.e. "you weren't created to serve the administration", "you weren't created to just to make money", "you weren't meant to exploit". In modern day this prophetic element is coming through several avenues one might not deem related to religion at all. This is again just a mis-understanding of the real meaning of the true prophetic intention.
The Pharonic model as a whole uses manipulation of nature. The metaphor in Qu'ran and some of the other holy books for this is when Pharoah's magicians throw down their staffs and they turn into snakes (manipulated nature). Moses, peace be upon him, in turn throws down his staff and it turns into a snake (the truth of nature) and it devours the magicians snakes. In Qu'ran it is detailed in saying after this Pharoah's magicians see the truth in this. Some of them join the ranks of Moses, peace be upon him. Pharoh in turn does not want to have a mass audience for this occurence.
The Pharonic model represents a control model. This control model seeks as we previously mentioned to have the people submit to created things.
The Prophetic model seeks to have people submit to God. This idea in present day because of the actual pharonic model's manipulation of religious organization is grossly distorted. If you do embark and continue to uncover the real domain of freedom within a religious model you will find it is unlimited. The religious model does outline what leads to darkness and what does lead to light. Even with this, the free will of the human being is not threatened, just a choice clearly presented. It has taken me nearly three years to find the scholarly backing for this idea. It is however very legit. The legislative aspect of religion is the only domain which darkness can have a physical voice in. Because of this the legislative aspect of many religions is rife with confusion and pitfalls. You really have to root around. It is also the reason why many choose to avoid it. So the result is the Prophetic model winds up being embodied under many different names. Organizations that are turned away from religion by and large because of the above mentioned pitfalls. So in a way the Pharonic model succeeds in creating separation in this area. Like I have said in so many posts before, "if it is not peace, love, mercy, justice, and freedom, chances are it is not real religion".
This phenomenon is also another reason why Qu'ran is 92% reflective, history, etc. 8% legislative. Clearly showing that which needs to be properly emphasized.
Language is a strange phenomenon. You can read a line of words but there is no way you can get the inflections or context without commentary. A good example is the meanings that can be derived from the word, "Dude". You can mean many different things depending on the context and inflections you place upon the word, "dude". If this is true for one word how can it be easier for 6000 multiple word verses? For this reason it states in the Qu'ran that it is to be used wholistically. The book needs to be used as a whole to derive all it's meanings. The spiritual states one needs to attain to satisfy some aspects of the Qu'ran will lead to the deeper meaning of other aspects, etc. It only works when used as a whole.
Jihad - I have finally done the legwork myself to really see what this word means in a Qu'ranic sense. At first I was just taking it for granted when my spiritual guide taught me it meant, "an inner struggle between light and darkness". But when I tell people I am Muslim they often ask why I follow the Qu'ran when it says it is OK to kill Jews and gay people, etc. I couldn't just tell them, "well my spiritual guide told me it wasn't like that". Context and inflection play a crucuial role in this issue. In the end using Qu'ran as a wholistic book it does not undermine the rights of any human being.
An example of this in history (before the rise of the modern pharonic model within Saudi Arabia which greatly perverted the scholarly issued laws for Muslims in the middle east) is how Muslim countrys refused to turn over the Jewish peoples under their rule to Hitler. Morocco is a prime example of this. There were many Jewish communities in Iraq, Iran, and Turkey. Hindus in Istanbul. Hindus are even credited in influencing Islamic thought by introducing the, "not 1 or 2 but neither" philosophy. In eastern europe it is documented that many Jewish peoples escaped Hitler by hiding in Mosque underdwellings, protected by the Imams of these institutions. It is unfortunate that because of current political situations these occurances do not make it to wide audiences. Why would these Muslims seek to protect people they are suppost to kill? Maybe they don't seek to kill them or deprive them from worshipping in the way that they seem fit. Unfortunatley Jewish peoples were incredibly mistreated in europe by and large. Excepting the obvious (holocaust) Jews were generally not treated as equal human beings. They were stoned, spit on, made to run naked in the streets. It is interesting that most of the main modern influential Jewish scholars lived and taught in Islamically ruled societies. Their books are in Arabic, their teachers were Arabs, they were Jewish, go figure.
I have to break here... I plan on finishing tomorrow. I will include in addition to finishing on Jihad some information about women in Islam. Another hot topic.
The pharonic model is universal and seeks what it seeks. I'll close with a fambous quote from my spiritual guide, "The darkness loves to say, there is no God but God (La illaha il-Allah)"
Seems this stuff is set up so people have to apply and use their intelligence. Without direct experience you just can't know for sure can you?
The compartmentalization of this topic is aimed at bypassing prejudices. Prejudices eliminate fair assesment of any topic. Please know that most forms of aggression (direct or indirect) are symptoms of ignorance.
Pharoah (pharonic) model vs. Prophetic model
6000 verses in Qu'ran - 500 of which deal with legislative subjects - controversy circulates around most of these legislative topics which as we have mentioned before in the past is largely due to the gross mis-interpretations of translations and translations themselves.
This subject is one of the non-legislative topics contained in Qu'ran. Notes were taken from Hamza Yusef's "Vision of Islam" class. The 5500 non-legislative verses in Qu'ran largely deal with history, stories of those who came before the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), reflections, and the Pharonic vs. Prophetic model.
The story of Moses and Pharoah is mentioned in Qu'ran more than any other. This is an important sign in and of itself. It is a message and discourse on the very nature of society and the pattern it normally rises and falls into.
Pharonic model:
The symbol for the Pharoah is the pyramid. The pyramid leads to an apex and is supported by a wide and large foundation. The apex symbolizes high society or a ruling class and the foundation symbolizes lower class structures. Everything points to and supports this ruling class.
Ruling class - (Pharon) political, controlling, traps all below in delusional followings, seeks to have classes lower than ruling to "worship" the leading class
Economic - (Haman) Deals with all issues regarding economics
Military - Empowers the above two structures to do as they want
"Magicians" - (well known in the story of Pharoh but can be paralleled into modern organizations) pulls veils over the masses, makes falsehood look true (media devices), seeks to keep the masses in a state of awe, "bewitches" people
all of the above mentioned in the Qu'ran
Pharohic personality traits - sensitive, sends out spies, uses a spy network, wants to monitor everything that is happening in society. Fearfull, fears the prophetic element in society because the prophetic element exposes the lie i.e. "you weren't created to serve the administration", "you weren't created to just to make money", "you weren't meant to exploit". In modern day this prophetic element is coming through several avenues one might not deem related to religion at all. This is again just a mis-understanding of the real meaning of the true prophetic intention.
The Pharonic model as a whole uses manipulation of nature. The metaphor in Qu'ran and some of the other holy books for this is when Pharoah's magicians throw down their staffs and they turn into snakes (manipulated nature). Moses, peace be upon him, in turn throws down his staff and it turns into a snake (the truth of nature) and it devours the magicians snakes. In Qu'ran it is detailed in saying after this Pharoah's magicians see the truth in this. Some of them join the ranks of Moses, peace be upon him. Pharoh in turn does not want to have a mass audience for this occurence.
The Pharonic model represents a control model. This control model seeks as we previously mentioned to have the people submit to created things.
The Prophetic model seeks to have people submit to God. This idea in present day because of the actual pharonic model's manipulation of religious organization is grossly distorted. If you do embark and continue to uncover the real domain of freedom within a religious model you will find it is unlimited. The religious model does outline what leads to darkness and what does lead to light. Even with this, the free will of the human being is not threatened, just a choice clearly presented. It has taken me nearly three years to find the scholarly backing for this idea. It is however very legit. The legislative aspect of religion is the only domain which darkness can have a physical voice in. Because of this the legislative aspect of many religions is rife with confusion and pitfalls. You really have to root around. It is also the reason why many choose to avoid it. So the result is the Prophetic model winds up being embodied under many different names. Organizations that are turned away from religion by and large because of the above mentioned pitfalls. So in a way the Pharonic model succeeds in creating separation in this area. Like I have said in so many posts before, "if it is not peace, love, mercy, justice, and freedom, chances are it is not real religion".
This phenomenon is also another reason why Qu'ran is 92% reflective, history, etc. 8% legislative. Clearly showing that which needs to be properly emphasized.
Language is a strange phenomenon. You can read a line of words but there is no way you can get the inflections or context without commentary. A good example is the meanings that can be derived from the word, "Dude". You can mean many different things depending on the context and inflections you place upon the word, "dude". If this is true for one word how can it be easier for 6000 multiple word verses? For this reason it states in the Qu'ran that it is to be used wholistically. The book needs to be used as a whole to derive all it's meanings. The spiritual states one needs to attain to satisfy some aspects of the Qu'ran will lead to the deeper meaning of other aspects, etc. It only works when used as a whole.
Jihad - I have finally done the legwork myself to really see what this word means in a Qu'ranic sense. At first I was just taking it for granted when my spiritual guide taught me it meant, "an inner struggle between light and darkness". But when I tell people I am Muslim they often ask why I follow the Qu'ran when it says it is OK to kill Jews and gay people, etc. I couldn't just tell them, "well my spiritual guide told me it wasn't like that". Context and inflection play a crucuial role in this issue. In the end using Qu'ran as a wholistic book it does not undermine the rights of any human being.
An example of this in history (before the rise of the modern pharonic model within Saudi Arabia which greatly perverted the scholarly issued laws for Muslims in the middle east) is how Muslim countrys refused to turn over the Jewish peoples under their rule to Hitler. Morocco is a prime example of this. There were many Jewish communities in Iraq, Iran, and Turkey. Hindus in Istanbul. Hindus are even credited in influencing Islamic thought by introducing the, "not 1 or 2 but neither" philosophy. In eastern europe it is documented that many Jewish peoples escaped Hitler by hiding in Mosque underdwellings, protected by the Imams of these institutions. It is unfortunate that because of current political situations these occurances do not make it to wide audiences. Why would these Muslims seek to protect people they are suppost to kill? Maybe they don't seek to kill them or deprive them from worshipping in the way that they seem fit. Unfortunatley Jewish peoples were incredibly mistreated in europe by and large. Excepting the obvious (holocaust) Jews were generally not treated as equal human beings. They were stoned, spit on, made to run naked in the streets. It is interesting that most of the main modern influential Jewish scholars lived and taught in Islamically ruled societies. Their books are in Arabic, their teachers were Arabs, they were Jewish, go figure.
I have to break here... I plan on finishing tomorrow. I will include in addition to finishing on Jihad some information about women in Islam. Another hot topic.
The pharonic model is universal and seeks what it seeks. I'll close with a fambous quote from my spiritual guide, "The darkness loves to say, there is no God but God (La illaha il-Allah)"
Seems this stuff is set up so people have to apply and use their intelligence. Without direct experience you just can't know for sure can you?