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Post by degicank on Aug 26, 2003 11:04:40 GMT -5
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Post by degicank on Sept 2, 2003 9:11:26 GMT -5
Prince and Kissinger are Rich. There was As much difference between rich/powerful Commies and freedom loving bomb building Democracies as there is between Democrats and Republcains. What ever it takes to sell more guns and bombs they'll do. The same people profited from the guns/weapons sold on either front of the Viet Nam Police action. Do You think Dean Paid for his Medical Diagnosis to keep him living the life of liesure? I know all of the dem's love him but I saw him on a long interview this summer and he must have touched his nose 50 times a sure sign someone is liying. I think it is better to know your president is a lying satanic anal-blood magic tool like GW than to think he's some kind of saint when he'll do the same things like al gore or Dean.
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ghost
Pre Panangian
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Post by ghost on Sept 18, 2003 16:59:48 GMT -5
In 1971, Dean, who had been a wrestling team captain in high school, received a draft deferment for an unfused vertebra in his back. In the Aug. 15, 2002, Aspen Times, Dean said he "skied 80 days" in Aspen during the winter of 1971-72. The Times reported that Dean "loved skiing bumps," otherwise known as moguls. (Some health publications note that moguls can put particular stress on the spine.) "It was a great time to be a kid and do something relatively fun," Dean recalled. He added that he also worked that year "pouring concrete." Time reported on Aug. 11, 2003, that Dean spent the year "skiing and bumming around. … He hit the slopes, tried pot, washed dishes, poured concrete and drank impressive amounts of beer."
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ghost
Pre Panangian
Posts: 5
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Post by ghost on Sept 18, 2003 17:05:52 GMT -5
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Bottom Gun: Presidential Draft Dodger George W. Bush
BUZZFLASH SPECIAL GUEST COMMENTARY By James C. Moore, co-author of "Bush's Brain: How Karl Rove Made George W.Bush Presidential"
President George W. Bush is a draft dodger. And his cowardice is the worst kind. Mr. Bush avoided both combat and making any kind of political statement on the War in Vietnam. While others served, giving their lives and limbs, or took part in a protest movement to end the war, the president's family connections got him a safe spot in the Texas Air National Guard. This is not the profile of a leader.
In 1994, during his first run for Governor of Texas, I was a panelist on a televised debate between Mr. Bush and Ann Richards. I was the first person in his life to ask him how he got into the National Guard so easily when there were more than 100,000 young men on waiting lists around the country. Mr. Bush said there was a shortage of pilots and he was willing to make the six year training commitment that others were not.
That is not true. There was no shortage. And when he got one of the coveted spots, Mr. Bush failed to honor his commitment.
Sgt. Donald Barnhart of the Texas Guard said there was a waiting list of 150 names for Bush's unit and a minimum of 18 months passed before an applicant was moved to the top. Historian for the Texas Air National Guard, Tom Hall, reported Bush's Houston air wing was authorized for 29 pilots and had 27. But two replacements were already in training and another pilot was awaiting transfer. There was no shortage.
But there were family connections.
In a deposition for an unrelated lawsuit, former Texas House Speaker Ben Barnes said he took a call from Bush family friend Sid Adger, a Houston businessman, asking for the favor of moving Bush up on the Guard's waiting list. Barnes said he called General James Rose, commanding officer of the Guard, and the request was granted. Adger was one of former President Bush's oldest and closest friends. A spokesman said the first President Bush "loved" Mr. Adger.
The son of then Congressman George H. W. Bush joined an Air Guard unit at Ellington Air Force Base where he served with the son of U.S. Senator John Tower and Lloyd Bentsen III, also a Texas senator's son.
Immediately after basic training, Bush got a direct appointment to Second Lieutenant, circumventing a rigorous qualification process, which normally involved Officer Candidate School. Charles Shoemake, who retired from the Texas Guard as a full colonel, said such appointments were rare, hard to get, and required extensive credentials. "I went from master sergeant to first lieutenant based on my three years in college and 15 years as a non-commissioned officer," he said. "Then I got considered for a direct appointment."
During his answer to my debate question in 1994, Mr. Bush said he could have been called up for duty in Vietnam. He had to know that was not true, either. On his Guard application, the future president checked a box saying he did "not" want to be considered for overseas deployment. Additionally, he was hundreds of hours short of flight time required for foreign duty, and the aircraft he flew, the F-102 was no longer being used in Southeast Asia.
After being rejected once, Mr. Bush reapplied and was granted a transfer to a Guard unit in Montgomery, Alabama. But he never showed up for duty. Instead, he spent his days working on a U.S. Senate campaign for a family friend. During his own presidential campaign, Mr. Bush's staff showed reporters a tattered piece of paper, missing a last name, as proof he reported for duty in Alabama. But both the CO of the Alabama unit, and his administrative officer, said they have no record or memory of Mr. Bush showing up. Not one of the approximately 700 men in the Alabama unit has ever stepped forward to say they remember Mr. Bush serving with them.
"Had he reported in, I would have had some recall, and I do not," Commander William Turnipseed said. "If we had a first lieutenant from Texas, I would have remembered."
Nonetheless, Mr. Bush maintained his flight status until 1972, when he failed to show up for a required physical. His campaign initially said he did not return to Houston because his family physician was unavailable to conduct the physical. When it was made clear such exams are given by military doctors, the campaign then explained that Mr. Bush did not take the physical because he had "decided" he would no longer fly. This is a unique approach to military service when the enlistee gets to "decide" his future duties. The year Mr. Bush skipped his physical, 1972, was also the first year the Guard began to institute random drug testing procedures.
Mr. Bush was grounded, his flight status revoked, and a punishment order was signed posting him to civilian duty in Denver. No evidence has ever been presented that he showed up there, either.
As the presidential campaign planning began in Texas, Lieutenant Colonel Bill Burkett of the Texas Guard said he overheard orders from the Governor's office to "scrub" Mr. Bush's records. Burkett said he listened as Joe Allbaugh and Dan Bartlett, both of whom went to Washington with the president, told Major General Daniel James, commander of the Texas Guard, to "make sure there is nothing embarrassing in the governor's file." Burkett, who was chief advisor to General James, also said he was present when the records were surrendered for scrubbing.
After he took office, Commander in Chief George W. Bush promoted Daniel James to CO of the U.S. National Guard in Washington.
And now, by stepping into a flight uniform and appearing on the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln, the president has insulted the men and women who served honorably in Iraq, and the more than 58 thousand heroes whose names are etched into black granite in Washington, and the surviving Vietnam Vets.
Since Mr. Bush seems oblivious, perhaps it is our duty, as citizens, to be ashamed for him. We are also obligated to ask, "Who fought in your place, Mr. President?"
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ghost
Pre Panangian
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Post by ghost on Sept 18, 2003 17:23:55 GMT -5
www.gwbush.com/www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/gotcoke.htm"Mr. Gore enlisted in the Army on Aug. 7, 1969, reporting to Fort Dix, N.J. He was based at Fort Rucker, Ala., working as an information specialist. For a reason neither he nor the military can explain, Mr. Gore would remain at Fort Rucker for a lengthy period awaiting orders." "When they finally came, he would spend less than five months in Vietnam, arriving on Jan. 8, 1971, to write newspaper and magazine articles. He was discharged on May 24, 1971." (The Washington Times National Weekly Edition Nov. 28 - Dec. 4, 1994) A five month stay in Vietnam is less than half the normal tour. Gore asked for and received an "early out" that May at a time when the 20th Engineers were standing down as part of a gradual U.S. troop reduction. (Washington Post. 12/31/99 pg. A1) I know what people are thinking. They're probably thinking, "So? Your point is....?" The point is, I believe that Gore has misrepresented his Vietnam activities. Gore stated that he was "shot at" and that "I spent most of my time in the field" (The Washington Post, 2/3/88). In a March 1988 Vanity Fair article, Gore described his travel to various firebases where members of his engineering company were at work: "I took my turn regularly on the perimeter in these little firebases out in the boonies. Something would move, we'd fire first and ask questions later." Gore also stated to the Baltimore Sun that, "I pulled my turn on the perimeter at night and walked through the elephant grass, and I was fired upon." (reported in the Los Angeles Times 10/15/99 and The Washington Post 12/31/99) Gore had an M-16 rifle assigned to him, which he carried on only a few occasions. However, Gore refers to having an M-16 assigned to him, as well showing photographs of him with the rifle in political ads, as if carrying or using the rifle was something he did on a regular basis. (The Washington Post 12/31/99, The Washington Post 6/27/99) According to Michael O'Hara, Gore's closest army buddy, "We never pulled guard duty in the field because we weren't part of those units. The only place we stood guard was back at Bien Hoa," the secure base where Gore lived. "It was the equivalent of being a school crossing guard. I know guys that didn't even take their rifles with them." (The National Review, November, 1999) Other soldiers with long experience in Vietnam said that Gore was treated differently from his fellow enlistees. H. Alan Leo, a photographer in the press brigade office where Gore worked as a reporter, said soldiers were ordered to keep Gore out of harm's way. "It blew me away," Leo said. "I was to make sure he didn't get into a situation he could not get out of. They didn't want him to get into trouble. So we went into the field after the fact [after combat actions], and that limited his exposure to any hazards." (Los Angeles Times 10/15/99) Leo described his half-dozen or so trips into the field with Gore as situations where "I could have worn a tuxedo." (Newsweek, 12/6/99) Gore's story changed to the more "accurate" version in his October 1999 interview with Talk magazine, though he wasn't asked why the story has now changed. In Gore's first debate with Bill Bradley in October, 1999, Gore emphasized numerous times that he "came back from Vietnam." Do people really believe that this wasn't mentioned to give to give the impression that he went to Vietnam and fought for a period of time? Why else would he continually mention this? Other statements about Gore's service also lead to the conclusion that he served in a combat role. In a Hardball rebroadcast on September 6, 1999, Chris Matthews, when speaking to Pat Buchanan, stated, "He [Al Gore] also fought in Vietnam, I mean, he served in Vietnam in a military capacity." This comment was preceded by a discussion of the baby boomer generation, and Pat Buchanan's comments about how many baby boomers fought in Vietnam. In November 1998, Gore attended an unveiling of three new postage stamps which recalled the fighting men of World War II and those who supported them on the home front. Gore is referred to as a Vietnam Veteran. (http://caller-times.com/autoconv/newsus98/newsus145.html) Yes, Gore is a Vietnam Veteran, but if Gore is at a ceremony which honors those who have fought in combat, and he is then referred to as a veteran, does this not imply that he too, fought in combat? This of course isn't meant to be misleading -- right? I am sure he assumes everyone will realize that he served by spending five months writing articles. When Gore talks about "serving in Vietnam" and "carrying an M-16" and "being shot at" I'm sure he isn't expecting that people will assume he fought in combat, right? Sure, and I have a private jet in my backyard. Really. A water jet on my sprinkler system! I am sure that by saying "jet" everyone assumed I was referring to my sprinkler, right? People have also e-mailed me and claimed that Republicans such as Dan Quayle dodged the draft while Gore served his country. "Quayle and others just served in the National Guard," they cry. "They got preferential treatment because of who they were!" First, many people legally signed up for the National Guard instead of waiting for their draft notice. It wasn't just a "way for the rich to avoid serving" as some people often conclude. In fact, some National Guard units were called into combat. Company D, the most highly decorated Army in Vietnam, was a National Guard unit from Muncie, Indiana. Obviously, the chance of being called to Vietnam if one was in the National Guard was slim, but some units were called. I doubt those in Company D, who lost their lives in Vietnam, would be considered draft-dodgers. In addition, if one voluntarily enlisted in the Army, rather than taking a chance and waiting for a draft notice, he usually was not sent into combat and was instead given behind-the-lines jobs. According to Army historians, the fact that Gore enlisted, avoiding the vagaries of the draft, increased the likelihood that he would get the job he wanted. In practice, they said, the military favored those who joined voluntarily. (Washington Post 12/30/99) Secondly, if people believe that those who enlisted in the National Guard "got in" because of preferential treatment, then they should acknowledge that Gore may have also received preferential treatment. If people conclude that entrance to the National Guard was based on preference, then they should acknowledge that it may not just be a coincidence that Al Gore, son of Senator Al Gore, landed a spot as a journalist for five months. I must emphasize that the issue is not the fact that Gore served in Vietnam as a journalist, but that he and others, I feel, have tried to misrepresent his level of service. It is also hypocritical to on one hand, paint anyone who served in the National Guard as a draft-dodger who obtained preferential treatment, and on the other hand, deny that Gore could have benefited the same way. If people want to talk about draft dodgers, perhaps they ought to start a discourse about Bill Clinton. This article copyright © 1999-2000 by Carolyn Gargaro
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ghost
Pre Panangian
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Post by ghost on Sept 18, 2003 17:29:08 GMT -5
What We Did When They Voted for War -- By Starhawk
On Sunday, October 6, we had a big Not In Our Name rally in San Francisco, with something like 10,000 people in Union Square. When I spoke, I asked how many people had called, written or emailed their elected representatives about the war. I think every person in the crowd raised their hands. I asked how many would consider civil disobedience, and at least three quarters raised their hands. That gave me ideas…
On Monday night, October 7, we had a meeting at UC Berkeley and came up with an ambitious plan to respond to a war vote. We would meet at the BART (our rapid transit) station at Market and Montgomery, near Feinstein’s office (our one Senator who was possibly going to vote for the war.) We’d march to the Federal Building, encamp there for the night (it was an unusually warm night when we planned this action) and blockade it in the morning.
After three days of frantic organizing, we met on the day the House voted for war, Thursday, October 10. We gathered for the march, and after a slow beginning, more and more people began to arrive. Art and Revolution brought signs and beautiful banners, and close to a thousand of us marched down Market Street, chanting,
"We don’t want to bomb Iraq, We want to take this country back!" and "We don’t want your oil war, Peace is what we’re calling for!" and other favorites, like the perennial "Hey hey, ho ho, Bush’s war has got to go!"
We came to the Federal Building, took over the plaza in front, which has recently been remodeled into a strangely inhuman concrete wasteland that looks as if it were designed for alien mating rites. Actually I believe it is planned to thwart terrorists from driving trucks full of fertilizer into the building, and luckily none of us were trying to do that. Instead we had a number of speeches, then songs, poems, and spoken word performances. The Brass Liberation Orchestra arrived and played dance music. We sent out for pizza for a couple of hundred people. Food Not Bombs arrived before the pizza, but after the meal we held a nonviolent direct action training for close to a hundred people. By then it was dark, and the line of police in front of the doors was so close I was tempted to recruit them for a role play.
A delegation from the Longshore Workers Union arrived, and spoke to us about their strike and their struggle. A group of us went aside and began organizing the next day’s blockade, forming affinity groups, recruiting runners and scouts and communications people. Others went back to playing music and holding discussions. People set up tents on the concrete or threw down sleeping bags. The warm weather was gone, and the night was cold, but dry. Around three in the morning, I snuggled up to some of the Not In Our Name activists and tried to sleep. Around four A.M, the big bass drum mercifully took a rest and was replaced by a sitar player offering us a soothing raga.
We woke up early, around five thirty, and began assembling the blockade. The Federal Building has two main entrances and two driveways into the parking area below, distributed among the four sides of the building. As more and more people arrived, it became clear that we actually had enough affinity groups to effectively blockade all the entrances. A group duct-taped themselves together in front of the main driveway. A Buddhist group arrived and began sitting in silent meditation in the front entranceway. Around the back, the police began arresting protestors who were sitting in front of the barricades. Some workers were angry, accosting the lines and attempting to bash protestors with briefcases. More were supportive, or at least philosophical about not getting to work on time. The brass band circled the building, providing a lively soundtrack.
Some of the arrests looked rough, but no one was seriously hurt. As Federal Workers attempted to climb over the barricades, protestors moved in to block them, and some of the workers tried to climb over the protestors. We kept the building effectively closed for around three hours. Then, just before 10 AM, arrests had thinned our numbers, and more and more workers were getting in. We decided to declare victory, rallied in the plaza, and a group of us marched back along Market Street to Feinstein’s office. By then, the Senate had also voted for war, and we knew that she had voted ‘yes’, in spite of major opposition by her constituents. The day before, her aide had informed us that she was getting six hundred calls a day, running sixty to one against the war.
At the building that houses Feinstein’s office, a group of protestors made a quick, successful end run around the police who were frantically holding the doors shut, got into the lobby, and took it over. They were eventually persuaded to leave by a promise that Feinstein’s aide would come down and talk to us. This proved to be a blatant lie, but a small delegation was allowed up to talk to the aide, a somewhat fruitless effort. One older man was arrested for no reason anyone could discern—presumably for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Almost all the Federal Building protestors were cited and released. Two were charged with misdemeanor assault—one because she was pushed by a plainclothes cop into a line of police, and one, again, for no reason anyone can quite fathom because she was arrested before any Federal workers attempted to cross her line. Nevertheless, some employee from the Federal prosecutor’s office had her charged with assault. A number of us managed to arm twist the Federal Marshalls into allowing us into the arraignment—which we as the public had a right to attend. Then I went home for a much deserved nap.
All in all, it was an amazing, empowering action, especially given the short time we had to organize it. Most of the people who blockaded had never done civil disobedience before. Now the challenge is to build on this, and channel the discontent and urgency so many people feel into effective action.
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Post by degijames on Jul 10, 2004 19:52:35 GMT -5
speaking of nam, I just wanted to know what you think about nam era and cambodia. The story I heard From Henry Kissenger's book, "the white house years, vol I" {the chapter is called: the agony of vietnam} is that Kissenger (and others) were invited to bomb the commies out of cambodia by the prince of cambodia. Lou is absolutely correct on this point. Cambodia had had enough of it's previous french imperialists so when the north vietamese came into thier country to build supply depots (the USA were bombing the hell out of the ho-chi-min trail; main supply route for both sides) they wanted them out asap. Nixon didn't want to take an offensive position but he was convinced by some good old german nazi intuition (H. Kissenger) and came out victorius. The upper class kids eating caviar in college (while thier "lessers" were getting sprayed with agent orange and carpet bombed by thier own team) saw the single largest victory of veitnam as another invasion of a slant eyed third world nation. In truth the "raid" on cambodia shortened the vietnam "conflict" by an undetermined amount of time.
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The Easter Bunny
Pre Panangian
The Rock was moved and the cave was empty...
Posts: 41
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Post by The Easter Bunny on Jul 10, 2004 21:00:00 GMT -5
Vietnam, sheitnam. Get over yourselves kids. You weren't even alive when any of this occured.
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Post by Joe on Feb 3, 2005 9:42:25 GMT -5
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Post by DEGICHRIS on Feb 7, 2005 20:18:11 GMT -5
yeah, we should show that movie, if we have none other at degicankfest. Rather political, but isn't everything these days?
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Dont mix business with pleasu
Guest
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Post by Dont mix business with pleasu on Feb 7, 2005 23:48:48 GMT -5
Keep those devils out of degicankfest.
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Post by DEGICHRIS on Feb 10, 2005 20:11:37 GMT -5
tru dat.
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Post by joe on Feb 14, 2005 23:01:58 GMT -5
Yo! put that music on the movie! Planet 22: The Jam before Muffin Jugs. Use other parts of set for highlights. For more psy-ops intterpretation use nubac naebirac, For authentic Kinder Colaboration method use Pat Panang: Cholestorole(ECONOCANK) , close to contract, or Gin 'er bread monkeys: notmyjobcoachstudios 1/13/98 (Econocank)
OK this is timequake. Submit 10 ideas/consernce about degicankfest by wed. 12midnight. By Thursday midnight each person adress one other persons 10 concerns. Friday by midnight: movie done, bands ready, Chilli cooking.
Chris, did you get the 10x10 ready? I've got 2 or three of them and we have some at the Tall Shiva. I'll try to call Rich but we have an informal agreement that you guys will walk the painting down there after the festy on the way to the afta party. Bill and kirk how is that A/V live internet 56K broadcast comin'? Attn Noob: picture page looks great, i would like to see a link on front page to upload pictures without having to log in. Is this possible? I'm working on the webcast. How many minutes do you need me to ftp you each week. I gave my login and password to a client in Philadelphia, He should have ftp'd you some data by now. Please prepare a cd of this data for Caleb to pick up or put it up at degicank.com, which ever is easier. Please call Tom and the president. I hope James has the limos ready for Corey and the president.
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Post by Joe on Sept 2, 2005 7:25:00 GMT -5
Great to see you back Lou!
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Post by degicank on May 12, 2006 2:39:38 GMT -5
It looks like the mainstream media and congress is right on top of things... Great suprise at the NSA phone datamining operATION REVEALED YESTERDAY in usa today.
Who are these rascals trying to fool? The "eschelon" program was first reported by DEGICITIES in 2000, the suprised congressmen/women aproved its creation under Clinton. This is it folks, the think/know the americains are dumb/forgetful enough to try anything now. Duck and cover!
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