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Post by DonnieDarko on Jul 9, 2004 2:31:07 GMT -5
Seraphim- An Angel with four faces; a man, a lion, an eagle and a bull. The Seraphim stand before God as ministering servants in the heavenly court. They are mentioned but once in the entire text of the Bible (Isa 6:6) where one of the Seraphim is represented as carrying celestial fire from the altar to purify the Prophet Isaias's lips.
It is said that once a Seraphim decended from Heaven and fathered four children with a mortal woman; Quadruplets. These "Nephilim" (the fallen ones) had the souls of angels that weren't meant to be. They're deformed and tormented. Because of this God sends the Seraphim back to earth to bring the souls of the Nephilim to him, to keep the Devil from claiming them as his own.
To gaze apon a Seraphim is to give up ones soul directly to Heaven, ones eyes are seared closed as the soul exits through them.
The Text inwhich these angels are discussed isn't even recognized by the church. Who does one turn to after confronting a Seraphim (who only show thier true faces when extracting a soul), after living to tell the untellable and unbelievable?
Can you ask a "servant of God" to issue an order in Yahweh's Court?
The following happened to Prophet Isaias (King James changed his name to Isaiah)
"In a vision of deep spiritual import, granted him in the Temple, Isaias beheld the invisible realities symbolized by the outward forms of Yahweh's dwelling place, of its altar, its ministers, etc. While he stood gazing before the priest's court, there arose before him an august vision of Yahweh sitting on the throne of His glory. On each side of the throne stood mysterious guardians, each supplied with six wings: two to bear them up, two veiling their faces, and two covering their feet, now naked, as became priestly service in the presence of the Almighty. His highest servants, they were there to minister to Him and proclaim His glory, each calling to the other: "Holy, holy, holy, Yahweh of hosts; all the earth is full of His glory." These were seraphim, one of which flew towards Isaias bearing a live coal which he had taken from the altar, and with which he touched and purified the Prophet's lips, that henceforth these might be consecrated to the utterances of inspiration."
Seraphim are mentioned twice in the Book of Enoch (AKA Henoch: The so-called Epistle of Barnabas twice cites Henoch as Scripture) in the fourth century the Henoch writings lost credit and ceased to be quoted. After an allusion by an author at the beginning of the ninth century, they disappear from records.
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Post by DonnieDarko on Jul 9, 2004 3:19:30 GMT -5
The book(s) of (H)Enoch was (were) originally written in either Hebrew or Aramaic and the Ethiopic version was derived from a Greek Version (perhaps lost in the fire at Alexandria). The Ethiopic verse compared to a recovered fragment of the Greek text (Akhmîn Greek fragment) deems the Ethiopic text viable and in most circumstances honorable.
The text as a whole is a compositon of many works by many authors mostly centered in Palestine and written by Hasidic or Pharisaic Jews. Parts 1-36 have been dated before 170 B.C.; 37-40 between 166 and 161 B.C.; parts 41-54 dates to around 134-95 B.C.; the Book of Parables between 94-64 B.C.; the Book of Celestial Physics and much of the remaining text is unclear of the time origin inwhich it was written. For ease in understanding further we will call the above Books I-V.
Book I-
It is based on Genisis, the book explains the origin of sin and evil in the world laying minimal blame on those who first commit these acts. Excerpt: "The sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took to themselves wives of all they chose." There is no mention of a messiah or Phropet in this section unlike the first book of the Bible.
Book II-
This is a two part book both parts looking at the same subject. The first part is a vision of a flood to wipe out man kind. Henoch pleads to God not to kill off mankind. The second part is from the viewpoint of cattle, beasts, and birds. It also outlines the entire history of Israel down to the Messianic reign.
Book III-
Is very similiar to the later written revelutions. It centers on the people of Isreal being "good" and those outside or outsiders within being "bad". At the end of Book III it explains the demise of mankind and those who pass to a blessed immortality in heaven for the righteous and those who go to the Sheol of darkness (before this book "hell" is refered to as Tartarus and Geennom).
Book IV-
Essentially this book has three parables in it. The first describes Heaven and the Angels(yes even Seraphims) The second is a little more in depth. It takes a look at Messias. It is almost identical to the book of Daniel in the Bible and by far the most descriptive (as far as Messiahs go) parable of the three. It states that the Elect one (son of man) was created before the sun and stars and that he alone shall wage punishment on those who oppose good; this section of Book IV is the most "Christian-like" of any other pre-Christian texts. Finally the third parable of Book IV describes the happiness reserved for the sin-less and the origin of the original sin as mysteriously satanistic.
Book V-
Supposedly given to Henoch by the angel Uriel this book centers on the movement of the celestial bodies and the degree of thier reign. Almost early astronomy; the last chapters of this book are excerpts from "The Book of Noah"
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Post by DonnieDarko on Jul 10, 2004 2:26:13 GMT -5
In this section we will touch apon Jesus Christ's Pagan and Judaic roots. As Christ lived and breathed on this earth mankind had no idea of what or who he was to become. It is very hard to find any physical proof of literature from his lifetime portraying the many Pagan ideologies that existed (I contribute this fact to the roman catholic church and it's willingness or need to destroy, alter or hide such documents) but we do have a number of Jewish transcrpits that have either been passed down to later generations then written or fragments of tablets which are believed to be from this time frame.
The roman catholic church (hereon refered to as the church) seems to think that the pagans had no interest or clue of the newly forming christian sect and the Jews who watched it form felt it as a sect of thier own.
Flash forward to the second century AD and we find a text called "the acts of pilate". Many in the church today consider this piece a mocking, hate filled disapproval of christianity when infact it is just a doctrine noting the existence of christianity. here is some info on the author (what little I could find anyway) Justin Martyr:
Among the Fathers of the second century his life is the best known, and from the most authentic documents. In both "Apologies" and in his "Dialogue" he gives many personal details (his studies in philosophy and his conversion; they are not, however, an autobiography, but are partly idealized) and it is necessary to distinguish in them poetry and truth; they furnish us however with several precious and reliable clues. For his martyrdom we have documents of undisputed authority. In the first line of his "Apology" he calls himself "Justin, the son of Priscos, son of Baccheios, of Flavia Neapolis, in Palestinian Syria". Flavia Neapolis, his native town, founded by Vespasian (A.D. 72), was built on the site of a place called Mabortha, or Mamortha, quite near Sichem (Guérin, "Samarie", I, Paris, 1874, 390-423; Schürer, "History of the Jewish People", tr., I, Edinburgh, 1885). Its inhabitants were all, or for the most part, pagans. The names of the father and grandfather of Justin suggest a pagan origin, and he speaks of himself as uncircumcised (Dialogue, xxviii). The date of his birth is uncertain, but would seem to fall in the first years of the second century. He received a good education in philosophy, an account of which he gives us at the beginning of his "Dialogue with the Jew Tryphon"; he placed himself first under a Stoic, but after some time found that he had learned nothing about God and that in fact his master had nothing to teach him on the subject. A Peripatetic whom he then found welcomed him at first but afterwards demanded a fee from him; this proved that he was not a philosopher. A Pythagorean refused to teach him anything until he should have learned music, astronomy, and geometry. Finally a Platonist arrived on the scene and for some time delighted Justin. This account cannot be taken too literally; the facts seem to be arranged with a view to showing the weakness of the pagan philosophies and of contrasting them with the teachings of the Prophets and of Christ. The main facts, however, may be accepted; the works of Justin seem to show just such a philosophic development as is here described, Eclectic, but owing much to Stoicism and more to Platonism. He was still under the charm of the Platonistic philosophy when, as he walked one day along the seashore, he met a mysterious old man; the conclusion of their long discussion was that he soul could not arrive through human knowledge at the idea of God, but that it needed to be instructed by the Prophets who, inspired by the Holy Ghost, had known God and could make Him known ("Dialogue", iii, vii; cf. Zahm, "Dichtung and Wahrheit in Justins Dialog mit dem Jeden Trypho" in "Zeitschr. für Kirchengesch.", VIII, 1885-1886, 37-66).
The source for the above is obviously German based perhaps a friend of ours could go more in depth about the meaning of the church's belittling of Justin (Chirrum anyone?)
So back to Jesus' pagan and jewish roots.
Tacitus, Suetonius, Pliny the Younger, Lucian, Numenius and Origen all atest to the mere existence of Christ even though they are known as paganistic writers. All six of these writers wrote about the accounts of Jesus (most likely in a folklore fashion for most, one generation removed for some) within 200 years of his time on earth. Christianity wasn't a cultural religion by any means (they were feeding christians to the lions at this point).
These writers also never mention any apostles of christ or the 12 buddies of christ. You will not find mention of the first four books of the new testament (The Gospels) in any of thier works nor will you find citings from works of people associated with Jesus. The church will have you believe that all of these writers "stole" thier thoughts and images of Jesus Christ from the gospels when in fact it is quite possible that they didn't exist yet (not in the form they do today and I don't mean the King James version).
So that barely covers the pagan side, my next post will be the Jewish roots of Christ aka King of the Jews.
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Post by DonnieDarko on Jul 10, 2004 2:42:41 GMT -5
Philo (D>40 AD), Flavius Josephus (B 37 AD) are but two jewish sources who divulge a bit of Christ in thier works. The church is not too pleased with thier statements and call them demeening. Here is an excerpt of Josephus work entitled "Antiquities":
About this time appeared Jesus, a wise man (if indeed it is right to call Him man; for He was a worker of astonishing deeds, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with joy), and He drew to Himself many Jews (many also of Greeks. This was the Christ.) And when Pilate, at the denunciation of those that are foremost among us, had condemned Him to the cross, those who had first loved Him did not abandon Him (for He appeared to them alive again on the third day, the holy prophets having foretold this and countless other marvels about Him.) The tribe of Christians named after Him did not cease to this day.
There is some disput about weather or not this passage wasn't placed in Josephus' works long after he died by some sneeky catholic somewhere down the line. A few Burdens of proof are as follows:
First, all codices or manuscripts of Josephus's work contain the text in question; to maintain the spuriousness of the text, we must suppose that all the copies of Josephus were in the hands of Christians, and were changed in the same way.
Second, it is true that neither Tertullian nor St. Justin makes use of Josephus's passage concerning Jesus; but this silence is probably due to the contempt with which the contemporary Jews regarded Josephus, and to the relatively little authority he had among the Roman readers. Writers of the age of Tertullian and Justin could appeal to living witnesses of the Apostolic tradition.
Third, Eusebius Sozomen, Niceph, Isidore of Pelusium, St. Jerome, Ambrose and Cassiodorus appeal to the testimony of Josephus; there must have been no doubt as to its authenticity at the time of these illustrious writers.
Fourth, the complete silence of Josephus as to Jesus would have been a more eloquent testimony than we possess in his present text; this latter contains no statement incompatible with its Josephan authorship: the Roman reader needed the information that Jesus was the Christ, or the founder of the Christian religion; the wonderful works of Jesus and His Resurrection from the dead were so incessantly urged by the Christians that without these attributes the Josephan Jesus would hardly have been acknowledged as the founder of Christianity.
If anyone would like to post thier theological ideas or beliefs feel free to do so.
[glow=red,2,300]987 days ago the tangent universe collapsed[/glow]
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fibonacci
Pre Panangian
0-1-1-2-3-5-8-13-21
Posts: 40
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Post by fibonacci on Jul 10, 2004 19:22:23 GMT -5
mr darko, have you read the heram key? very informative, yet highly commercial. one might say that it is strickly commercial. available at any large mass production, 5 dollar selling, small town dwelling. wanted to know, fibonacci
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Post by degijames on Jul 10, 2004 19:35:59 GMT -5
Do you mean the "Hiram Key"?
Jesus and James are believed to have been free masons (they were brothers so maybe the fact of jesus being a carpenter led him then his brother to this route).
There's a rumor that hundreds of years ago the modern masons built a replica of the jerusalum church (herods temple) in scotland (or wales or somewhere on that island; damn the secrecy of the masons!!!) and in this church are the real dead sea scrolls. Well not the dead sea scrolls because they were found in a cave near the dead sea. I guess the scrolls stored in the replica of this temple could be called the jerusalem church scrolls.
This book has been denounced by the roman catholic church.
BTW- I have yet to find info on this four faced angel. Donnie can you shed more light on this subject? I think it was meantioned in an X-files episode once wasn't it?
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The Easter Bunny
Pre Panangian
The Rock was moved and the cave was empty...
Posts: 41
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Post by The Easter Bunny on Jul 10, 2004 21:08:55 GMT -5
What the hell do you think you guys are, theologians?
Can DonnieDarko prove any of this S_H_I_T or is he pulling it out of his/her ass?
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Post by DonnieDarko on Jul 11, 2004 2:40:32 GMT -5
If Adam and Eve had three sons; Cain, Able and Seth; where did Cains wife appear from?
Was she alien? Was she not God's creation?
A Banned book (excluded from the Cannon of Constintine; where the modern Bible was pieced together from existing accepted works) called "Jubilees" gives the only plausable or even discussed root of Cains wife.
Adam and Eve have 9 children, six more than acredited in the Bible. Awan was one of these children not mentioned and Awan was the one Cain took as his wife; his own sister. At the time of Jubilees the Jewish Sect was a very nervous sect when it came to outsiders. They were a culture especially nervous of outside women. Cain taking his sister Awan was not as morally or culturally opposed as if Cain had taken an outsider, an egyptian or far eastern woman for a wife.
Jubilees was written around 150 BC by an unknown author who wanted to maintain a strong Jewish purity among what followers the faith had left. This author wanted nothing more than to have his faith follow it's laws more strictly perhaps giving meaning back to it for those who had lost meaning.
Jubilees start with Moses being visited by an angel who tells moses about the Jewish history; from creation to the parting of the Red Sea. By approaching the story from this vantage point it makes Jubilees more of a fundamentalist book, it tries to answer unanswered questions.
Little was known about this lost/banned book of Constintines Cannon outside of Asien story telling and eastern african folklore. In 1947 Jubilees was found as part of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Previously Scottish travelers in the highlands of Ethiopia had discovered anceint manuscripts in the late 1800's. All along the Ethiopian Christian Bible contained Jubilees; folklore to some gospel to others.
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Post by DonnieDarko on Jul 11, 2004 3:02:59 GMT -5
Thomas the Israelite philosopher's account of the infancy of the Lord:
One day, when Jesus was climbing on a certain house, along with the children, He began to play with them. And one of the boys fell down through a back-door, and died immediately: And when the children saw this, they all ran away; but Jesus remained in the house. And when the parents of the boy who had died had come, they spoke against Jesus: Surely it was thou who made him fall down; and they reviled Him. And Jesus, coming down from the house. stood over the dead child, and with a loud voice called out the name of the child: Sinoo, Sinoo, rise and say whether it was I that made thee fall down. And suddenly he rose up, and said: No, my lord. And his parents, seeing such a great miracle done by Jesus, glorified God, and adored Jesus.
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Post by DonnieDarko on Jul 11, 2004 3:07:29 GMT -5
And Jesus reached the age of eight years, Joseph was a master builder, and used to make ploughs and ox-yokes. And one day a rich man said to Joseph: Master, make me a couch, both useful and beautiful. And Joseph was in distress, because the wood which he had brought for the work was too short. And Jesus said to him: Do not be annoyed. Take hold of this piece of wood by one end, and I by the other;I and let us draw it out. And they did so; and immediately he found it useful for that which he wished. And He said to Joseph: Behold, do the work which thou wishest. And Joseph, seeing what He had done, embraced Him, and said: Blessed am I, because God hath given me such a son.
What you won't read or find in the churches newer accounts of Jesus Christ is th story of Jesus Blinding a customer of his fathers (joseph). It goes that one day a customer of Josephs was irrate with work that had been performed for him. This customer belittles and insults joseph to a point where Jesus (at age 8) blinds this customer. There is no mention of weather or not this deed was corrected nor if joseph even offered to Jesus to correct what he had done.
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Post by Isaiah 520 on Jul 14, 2004 13:01:06 GMT -5
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!"
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Post by F u on Jul 14, 2004 18:51:55 GMT -5
" Ye who hath no sin be stedfast to calleth the sins of thy neighbor; ye who woes ill towards thy neighbor be cast into fire and brimstone"
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fibonacci
Pre Panangian
0-1-1-2-3-5-8-13-21
Posts: 40
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Post by fibonacci on Jul 17, 2004 16:04:44 GMT -5
jesus, smesus, let's have a drink. ;D
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Post by Shitty Beer on Jul 17, 2004 16:27:10 GMT -5
Having a Honey Brown myself, trying to have a drink with my buddy CW but can't seem to get the right karma going to get to SC.
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Post by Bill on Jul 21, 2004 12:38:50 GMT -5
wow, we go from quoting the bible to shitty beer...
I love this place.
;D
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